On today’s edition of SNAPSHOTS. The date was December 19, 1986. What were you doing that day? That was the day that the cult classic, Little Shop of Horrors, entered onto the big screen in a very big way. Nearly 40 years later, both the Lincoln Theater in DC, and the M&T Bank Exchange in Baltimore this week will get their chance to not only see this wonderful film, but to see and meet and hear our next guest!
When I saw her on the screen 40 years ago, her voice was so powerful. Her voice was demanding. Her presence was unbelievable that I still cannot believe. I have to pinch myself right now that I’m interviewing, for not only she played Audrey in the movie, but she originated the role off Broadway way back in 1982.
Ladies and gentlemen, I am here with off Broadway movie royalty. Let’s welcome to SNAPSHOTS, Ellen Greene!
How you doing, Ellen?
You’re so funny. Yes, the film took a bite out of history, so to speak. And it chewed its way to 44 years later, and it’s still going, which is absolutely shocking. But it’s so wonderful because every time someone does it in high school or somebody loves this film, Howard Ashman lives, and it makes me so humble, and I’m so grateful.
Absolutely, I still can’t believe this the man who is responsible for Beauty and the Beast, The Little Mermaid, and Aladdin. So, the first question I got to ask you, and this is five-year-old me talking here, especially since it’s a rarity that any actor who creates a role on stage get to star in the film adaptation years later. Tell us what the audition was like, and what did it mean for you at the time to get the role going from off Broadway to the actual film itself. Let’s start with the off-Broadway audition back in the 80s.
Howard and I knew each other because we met each other the year before. He was doing Real Life Funnies, and I was in Cambridge doing Seven Deadly Sins with Carmen de Lavallade.
Wow!
And they wanted me, exactly, talk about royalty. Thank you for knowing who she is because I loved her, and they wanted me to meet him, and so we just laughed, we just hit it off. We got we got each other immediately. I did every song I had. A year later, I got the script, and it’s “Skid Row, Skid Row, Skid Row”. I didn’t want to do another camp musical.
But I’m on line for unemployment, and I’m listening to Green, and all of a sudden, I realized I was singing aloud, which I never do. I have to study a song, and I was crying. It touched me, and I realized I had Audrey inside of me waiting to be born, and that’s what happens often with I create a character, I feel her first, and then just things pour out of me.
And at the audition, I just spoke like that without thinking. I have no idea where the speaking voice came from. Then I did Green, and Alan got behind the piano, and I sang Green at the end of it. The three of us were bonded for life, and then I told Howard, “we had such respect for each other”. We got each other’s sense of humor.
We’re sitting on stage at the WPA, which is off Fifth Avenue and 23rd Street over a massage parlor. I’m getting $50 a week for one month of rehearsal and then two months of show. We’re sitting on the on the stage, going through the play, he had an S&M number that I said, “you know, you don’t need this”. So, he immediately got rid of it, and we just kept talking.
And in fact, we went through the first act and staged it the first week and the second act, he also let me change lines. Like he said “nightclub”, and I said it’s not funny. He said, “What’s funny? And I said, “Night spat. And so that became part of the script. And the two of us were seamless. She was just a sweeper net on the page. I didn’t see her that way.
I saw her very zastic, almost ripe enough to fall off the tree, like a really juicy peach. And so I gained some weight, and then I wanted her teetering on high heels, just like with humor. Just when you’re about to laugh, I make you cry. Just when you’re about to cry, I make you laugh. I bought a cocktail dress, like greasy, and he said, “Are you sure? And I said, “This is good taste.
And the Audreyisms started spilling out of me. I have no idea where any of them came from, and everybody started talking like Audrey. And then I did the makeup, and I thought it was too hard. And so I said, “Meet me at 14th Street at this great place.” And he was standing there, and all so sexy, with a Brooks Brothers shirt and a tie and a vest and jeans, he was very handsome.
And he wasn’t sure he liked the blonde wig. It was a blonde long wig with bangs. But we went. I went back to the stage, and Paul Holmes, who was a stage manager, helped me cut it. And Howard still wasn’t sure, but when I used her up and I finished the finishing touches, he said, “It’s perfect”, and so he loved it. He was really wonderful to me because he believed in me, he trusted me, and well, he gave me half a point to profit because he always was proud of my creation. It definitely fits into the play.
It shows not only with the play, but taking the iconic role that you created, the bits and pieces, and brought it onto the screen. When I think of the movie, I always think of Audrey, and it’s amazing how you really took care of that character and made it your own.
Well, we all have a function in a play. You’re only a cog. That’s what I love about creating. I had training from the public theater. You left your ego at the door. You walked in. Everyone’s talented, so no one’s talented.
I was the heart, so of course you’d feel for me the most because I’m the heart, but Mushnik is the instigator. The girls are the urchins, which is every man, and they’re also the POV of the writer and the director because they’re the Greek chorus. And Orrin is a catalyst and an antagonist, and of course Seymour is the protagonist. So, everybody has a function. I love that you’re saying you love me, but that was my job. You needed to fall in love with me.
It’s also because I think we all want her dream. Everyone wants a place where they feel comfortable. They want a home that they can feel like their authentic selves that they can love someone and be loved back, and it’s this magical world full of whimsy that is very silly, but it has moral underpinnings, and it also is this faustian tale that if you if you give in to greed and money and you give in to power. You’re not going to like who you are, and you won’t like the consequences. And so, it also has a lesson. And it’s just, I told Frank it was like his Grover, which was larger than life, as joie de vivre, very silly, but he’s always truthful and honest and dear, not a camp musical.
You’re absolutely right. Is it what I read true that you actually push to get Frank Oz to direct the film? Is that correct?
Well, I wanted him to because, as I said, I knew. Well, I didn’t tell you this yet. I knew Frank because I was dating Mr. Snuffleupagus, so I’d been on Sesame Street. I knew Frank and Jim (Henson) beforehand. The script went through several people: John Landis first then Scorsese. This was sort of an in-between time, and I wasn’t attached.
I asked Howard if I could talk to Frank, and Frank was doing Muppets Take Manhattan. I asked, “could I speak to Frank?” And I said, “Frank, the reason you should do Little Shop besides, of course, the puppets. I mean, this man doesn’t imbue it with a voice. He imbues his inanimate objects with a soul. I mean, the man is an auteur. Both he and Howard are geniuses in what Howard did and what Frank still does.
But I compared this land, which is a very complex land that looks simple, to Grover, and I said he’s larger than life. He has just joie de vivre. He is very silly and whimsical, but he’s very true, very honest and dear, and that’s the combination. If you add all that with the undercurrent of what Audrey exposes in Suddenly Seymour, which is losers like I’ve been. There’s deep self-esteem, and to understand loss is a big thing. And I do know I can relate to loss because I’ve lost so many people including my Howard. It’s a real strong undercurrent to all that other frivolous stuff.
You’re absolutely, and my I speak for myself that I’ve lost some great people. My mom, who got me into live theater. I’m always grateful that she brought this world into my life. In fact, she got me into this film. I’m forever grateful for my mother for bringing me to this full circle moment.
She had good taste.
I want to touch on something. Just moments ago, you discussed Somewhere That’s Green. It brought tears to everyone’s eyes when you first performed it. Why do you feel that song still resonates with audiences 40 plus years later?
Nice.
So, the reason is because when you she starts to dream this dream, and she gets so wrapped up in this dream. And all of a sudden, the reality of the dream starts to evaporate because it starts to collide with the reality of a situation. You start to feel like maybe this is unattainable, but the feeling that Little Shop conveys is no matter how possibly unattainable, you need to keep dreaming, and especially today when it’s very difficult sometimes to believe. But you need to always believe in your dreams and believe in yourself, and when you need to believe in others,
You’re right. In fact, one of my mottos in life is “Dare to Dream”, and I kept that motto for the last 20 plus years. This shy kid growing up in Maryland dreamt of becoming a reporter, and I’ve been doing it for 17 years later, and never thought it would come to this moment or so many grateful moments that I had for 17 great years with this magazine.
Ellen, how does it feel that you’re going to be in the DMV three days this week especially two of those days, is in Howard’s backyard, Baltimore, Maryland?
It makes me happy. It makes me think of his mother, Shirley, and his sister Sarah, and Howard. The last time I was there was for Smile in Baltimore. Every time somebody does it, I believe I said this already, but if I didn’t, let me say it again. Every time someone loves Little Shop, performs Little Shop in a high school or something, or just watches a film, Howard Ashman lives. So many people of so much talent gave their hearts and loved it when they made it, and so that you love it. It’s the cherry on top.
Little Shop of Horrors – 40th Anniversary Screening with Ellen Greene is coming to the DMV for three consecutive days: Friday, September 25th at the Lincoln Theatre. Click HERE for DC tickets & September 26-27th at M&T Bank Exchange. Click HERE for Baltimore tickets!
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